The MindSpa Podcast

Ep 24 Part 2 Rebuilding Family After Separation With Law, Therapy, And Money Wisdom

• Batten Media House • Season 1 • Episode 24

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Separation doesn’t have to feel like free fall. We dive straight into what actually reduces chaos in the first weeks: simple interim agreements that get you into stable living arrangements, a workable parenting schedule, and a clear plan for bills so negotiation can start from calmer ground. We bust the stubborn myth that moving out means losing your kids or your home, and we explain the real risks and obligations that follow if you leave without a basic plan.

From there, we open up the toolbox. You’ll hear how to document agreements the smart way, when emails are enough to start, and when to formalize with lawyers. We unpack prenups and cohabitation agreements in Ontario—what they clarify, what they can’t touch around parenting, and why behaviour clauses make headlines but rarely hold up. Living near the Ottawa–Gatineau border? We map the hidden jurisdiction traps where property rights follow Quebec’s civil law while parenting disputes unfold in Ontario.

One of the toughest moments comes when a child refuses to go to the other parent. We walk through the best interests test, the child’s voice, and the line between reasonable consequences and issues that need therapy, voice‑of‑the‑child reports, or a court‑order review. Practical tips on exchanges, school‑based handovers, and communication keep the focus on the child’s stability, not parental scorekeeping.

Our vision is holistic and human. Legal strategy works best alongside therapy, financial planning, and real‑world logistics. That’s why we connect clients with trusted professionals who can answer, Should I keep the house? How do I set boundaries? What support does my child need to feel safe? Separation is not just an ending; it’s a redesign of family life. Press play to learn how to steady the ground, make informed choices, and rebuild with care. If this helped, subscribe, share with a friend who needs clarity today, and leave a review so others can find it.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Mind Spot Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the episode. I um I want to go back a little bit because I have a question around you were saying that one of the misconceptions is how long everything takes. And then what I thought could be a question in people's minds is then what are you doing logistically with your partner before that? Because it seems like that that I've seen a lot of complicated around of like who's gonna live where? Are we gonna live under the same roof and one person sleeping in the basement? Oh yes, yeah, yeah. Like can anybody move? Who's when are the kids gonna be where? Who's paying for what? Like that could be two years of a lot of uncertainty. A lot of uncertainty. So is there a way to like is there a process of let's come up with an initial agreement to start out with?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's it. Come up with some sort of interim agreement, some sort of temporary. I tell people like it's a band-aid that's gonna get you through. Okay. To get you, like if if there's a lot of conflict, maybe you can't both be in the same house. What temporary agreements do we need to get you both into different houses, different living situations, so we can calm everything down so you can both be in a place to negotiate. Right. Right. Um, another common misconception is around that of I can't leave the house. I can't it's it's abandoning my children or it's abandoning the house and I'll lose all my rights. Okay, really thought that was true.

SPEAKER_01:

Please tell us how that actually works. I thought that was true. No, no, I don't think it's true.

SPEAKER_03:

Not necessarily. Okay. What is true is that if you there is a piece of the law that says essentially if you leave and acquiesce to your partner, the other parent having decision-making authority, then they get decision-making authority. But you don't have to do much to not acquiesce to it, right? You make it clear that there's a reason, like what's going on. Um, what we do tell people is don't leave without some sort of parenting and plan in place. Okay. Because if the kids live there, um, you can be behind the eight ball, yeah, negotiating, getting your kids to live, you know, with you part of the time or whatnot. Um, so you should have conversations about where are the kids gonna live, what amount of time are they gonna spend with each of us, who's gonna pay the mortgage on the house, how are living expenses gonna be covered. Um, you don't give up your rights to your house as an asset, even if you're married, even if your name isn't on the house.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Just by moving out of the house.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

You have property rights that have nothing to do with whether you're in the house, right? Like somebody might own an apartment and rent it out, right? But they still don't own the apartment. Um, so you don't give up those rights, but we also tell people to be mindful that with those rights may come obligations.

SPEAKER_00:

Right?

SPEAKER_03:

You can't necessarily just stop paying your mortgage. Right. Um, you can't just fully walk away. We need to have some conversations. And if conversations aren't had either and both, that can lead to more conflict, yeah. Right, unmet expectations, unmet needs. Yeah, right. And it can lead to more expenses and issues down the road because people kind of sometimes they just kind of fall into a, well, I moved out and they kept paying the mortgage and the and the kids were fine and we worked everything out. But now we realize we need to untangle our finances because I want to buy my own house and whatnot. And then maybe we're looking at a year or more of okay, well, who paid for what and who should have paid for what? And how are we gonna untangle all of this stuff?

SPEAKER_01:

Right? So ideally they would have ca because you said they can agree to it, or we have to establish it. Does it need to be established though legally? Is it like let's document this, let's write it in a paper, we both sign it, but it could just be a word document that we put together.

SPEAKER_03:

Ideally, you have an interim agreement that lawyers have been involved with. Okay. That's signed and dated and witnessed and done, you know, inside the box.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But even if you have emails that say, okay, here's what the schedule's gonna be for the next whatever, right? Here's what we agreed to, and your your spouse is responding saying, Yes, I'm going to XYZ. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially on day one, we've decided to separate. We can have it be that informal to begin with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then it's an the the goal is kind of formalize as soon as you can. Okay. So what role do the prenups play in all of this?

SPEAKER_02:

Is that does that make the process smoother when it comes to this stage?

SPEAKER_03:

And what would you it it certainly can? So we do um prenups, which in Ontario are called marriage contracts and can be pre-and-post.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

And you can sign it after the wedding. It doesn't have to be before in Ontario. We also do cohabitation agreements, which is if you're living together but not married, because that can come with rights and obligations too. Um, and one of the selling points of the cohabitation agreement or the prenup is that if you get to this stage, there's already clarity.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It already says if we break up, then you know, here's what's going to happen to our house. Here's what's going to happen financially. Right. Though sometimes a prenup is if we break up, we are going to follow the law, except for these exceptions. And then maybe it's not as clear. But it might say if we break up, then spouse one will move out of the house within three months. If you're married, that gets a little dicey because you get into matrimonial home rights. But if everybody's on board and says, Yep, nope, we signed a prenup and it said, I promised that even though I couldn't be legally forced to move out of the house, I wouldn't be a jerk and I would, right? Um, if you can settle a lot of financial issues ahead of time or at least lay the groundwork for some of them, it gives both spouses more clarity around finances sometimes. So there's not assumptions. Like, I thought I had a right to XYZ, right? Why can't I get XYZ? You know, why do I have to give them this or them that versus no, we had a conversation about this already. And I know that this is important to them, and I've already agreed. Um, and not only have we had a conversation already, we had that conversation when we really loved each other a lot and wanted the best for each other, right, instead of when we were really, really hurt and angry. So that's the other selling of prenups. What can't go into a document like that is most things about parenting. So that's still gonna be an issue, figuring out where the kids are gonna go, um, who they're gonna live with and how decisions are gonna get made.

SPEAKER_01:

Is it real that in prenups that people can put behavior clauses in it? Not in Ontario. No, okay, because you see that in the movies all the time where it's like if they cheat, then I get X, Y, Z. Yeah. We saw recently uh headlines was um, oh, what's her name? Sorry, Keith Urban and Nicole Kidd. Nicole Kidd. I heard they separated, but I didn't read about it yet. So they had a behavior clause in their own. Well, his was sobriety, that he would get like an extra hundred thousand dollars a year or something for every year he was sober in their marriage. Wow, and I was like, is that real though? Is that something that actually people can put in?

SPEAKER_03:

There's always that line or space between what do people put in an agreement and what do people agree upon and follow? True. And what would a judge enforce? True. Yeah. Right. Okay. So your agreement might say, if you cheat on me, you owe me$10,000. Okay. And you might actually do that, right? The person might actually say, Yeah, I cheated on you.

SPEAKER_01:

Here's your$10,000.

SPEAKER_03:

Here's your$10,000. But whether that's legally enforceable in Ontario, we can't enforce um morality clauses. Oh, okay. Um, so whether a judge would be um on your side or not, it would be something else. Though we do see agreements around like if we are married for less than five years, this is what it looks like. Okay. If we have kids or don't have kids, okay, this is what it looks like. But that's less around morality and behavior.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. It makes good television. It does make good television.

SPEAKER_03:

And in some jurisdictions, I think outside of Canada, someplace in the states that might be enforceable. And so you do, again, misconceptions.

SPEAKER_01:

I imagine the majority of them actually come from television and/or American law because their legal system and ours is very different, right? Very different.

SPEAKER_03:

Even like important to note, the Quebec legal system is quite different. Oh, yes, that's right. So in Ottawa, we have that difficulty of well, we actually live in Quebec.

SPEAKER_01:

Like well, that's an example.

SPEAKER_03:

Where you live at the time of the separation.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, if you separate in Quebec and then relocate to Ontario, and now you're both in Ontario and your kids are on in Ontario and you're arguing about child support or where the kids are going to live now, then you'd be in Ontario, but your property rights are all coming from Quebec.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that sounds complicated. Yeah. That sounds like you need like two lawyers each. And one on each side.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you you need the right the person on the right side of the river when you're going through it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

So if you say, Oh, I've separated from my spouse and I live in Ottawa, but I just moved here a month ago and we lived in Quebec our entire marriage. Yeah. So, well, you actually gotta go. Oh, because you're all a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02:

Your separation's happening in Quebec.

SPEAKER_03:

Your separation happened in Quebec, right? Um, so it's not that it's more complicated, it's just um something we forget about in Ottawa. That there is that river is me in my five today.

SPEAKER_01:

I popped over to Quebec for 10 seconds and we're gonna traffic.

SPEAKER_03:

The spas are over on that side. People pop over the Gatineau Park, and then we forget that it's an entirely different province with different rules, and has much there's a much bigger difference between Quebec and any other province than um really the other provinces are between each other because Quebec is based in a is a civil law system.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um their law is different, every other province is common law. And I couldn't even begin to give an educated answer to what the differences are.

SPEAKER_02:

Follow-up questions, though.

SPEAKER_03:

Um just I say to clients, so you've you've gotta you've gotta talk to somebody. Um, there were a lot of interesting problems in the early days of COVID and co-parenting and kids needing to go back and forth and needing court orders and being able to cross the bridge, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh wow. I didn't think of that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was in the early days of the pandemic. Some parents had a lot of challenges, just and and they wanted it to have it's not like one parent was on the other side saying, Well, I guess I have the kids now because I'm in the other province. It was like, no, I need to get my kids to their other parent. Like, we're totally cooperative. We don't have a court order. Right. Yeah. You know what though?

SPEAKER_01:

I just have a burning question that came to mind. I hope I can answer it. Burning question. Oh no. So you okay say it for birds even more. What I see all the time is I'll see someone where the child does not want to go to the other parent's house. And the child is of an age where you can't just like plop them in the car, put them in their car seat, and drag them over there. Like you'd have to physically manhandle your 12-year-old, shove them in the car, yank them out of the car, bring them to the door. If if the parent who's trying to be respectful of the arrangement. And I've always wondered, like, I don't even know what to say from a legal standpoint of what your obligation is, because kids can be pretty adamant that they don't want to go. I think of it with school too. If there's school refusal, like what are you going to do? Physically manhandle the child, otherwise, if they're not agreeing. So what are you so what if you're the parent who's like, I'm trying to be respectful of this arrangement, but my child is adamant that they don't want to go.

SPEAKER_02:

I guess just to add to that question too, like what role, because I've heard of like the office of the children's lawyer. Like what role does that play? Is that kind of where they would come into play or is that completely different?

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe depending. So it's a it's a really there's a lot of reasons why a kid might not want to go to the other parent.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um there's also a misconception here of I hear like, well, they're 12, so they get to decide. Or at what age does my child get to decide? Yeah, yeah. Um in Ontario, there's no set age at which a child gets to decide.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Except 18. Except 18, okay. When they're an adult now. Okay. Uh, but even then, maybe not. Oh. Depending on uh the circumstances and whether they are able to decide, but then we're getting into questions of capacity. Okay. Um the law says around parenting arrangements and and decision making and where kids live, says that you decide, the law says judges apply the best interests of the child. And that involves a whole bunch of different factors, including to the extent to which they can be heard and understood, what the child's wishes are. So that in part is sometimes where the office of the children's lawyer comes in, or a social worker or lawyer or private person who does a voice of the child report, or something like child inclusive mediation. Different ways to have a child's voice heard where they can say, This is what I want to happen.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Um, when it comes to the legal obligation, if there's a court order, the parents are legally obligated to follow the court order. Right. Um, assuming we're not talking about a situation of child endangerment or something like that, just a kid, I don't want to go to dad's, he doesn't let me play video games. Right, right. Um, or I don't want to go to dad's or mom's, they have a new partner, they have a new spouse, there's a there's a a little brother I don't like, right? Um, they are expected to enforce the court order much like a a child has to go to school and do their homework and go to the dentist and brush their teeth and all the things that kids don't want to do. A judge would say, Well, what are the consequences when they don't brush their teeth? Yeah. Do you take away their PlayStation? Well, then maybe that's the consequence if they're not going, if they're not being aware of the case.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's an expectation to like, there is an expectation to place consequences on the child.

SPEAKER_03:

There can be, yes. But then it also comes to something that's kind of outside the legal system and outside our control, which is why is this child not going? Like you talked about school refusal. Right. It's usually not a simple answer, right? And often we need other professionals involved, and maybe there's therapeutic uh interventions to explore, you know, why is this child not going? What's going on? How can we support this relationship?

SPEAKER_01:

So if the parent shows that they're doing everything humanly possible to facilitate their child going, but they're not able to do it without physicality, let's say, will that protect them legally? Or can I say it depends again? Yeah, so you can. But it depends again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's all it's all a question of facts and context. Okay. But at some point it might be worth having that court order reviewed. It might need to be reviewed. Or maybe there's not a court order yet and this is the first time they're having that conversation and they want to get a voice of the child report or something like that. But yes, if you if somebody's experiencing a if they have a court order or an agreement and suddenly it's not working anymore, um, whether that's parenting or financial arrangements, it probably is time for a conversation. And much like the initial separation, how is that going to be addressed? What process are you going to go into? What information do you need? What supports do you need?

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you know whose obligation it is in the sense, like I I always thought too, because what I I've personally seen more often is that it's mom who's trying to get them to go to dad's. That's just what I've seen more often. Um, but for some how it's always like seems to be her obligation to get the child there versus I'm like, why is it not his obligation to come get the child? And that obligation would be on him to set to have the relationship basically rupture by trying to force them to come with them versus mom being the bad guy. Being the bad guy trying to force them to go with them. Is there any, is it sort of like whoever, wherever they are? Yeah, it's that parent's obligation.

SPEAKER_03:

It depends on the court order. It could say the parent with whom the child is residing has to be, you know, has to deliver them to the other. Oh, it could be the parent to whom they are going has to pick them up.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's decided at that level.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, a lot of the time if there's really high conflict between the parents, they don't even do exchanges at the house. Right. It's just at school or at, you know, something else. Right. So that's so much easier, isn't it? Yeah, it can be though it puts other it it brings up. One solution brings another problem. The school isn't always involved, but like, okay, transition day is on Monday, so mom drops the kids off and then dad picks the kids up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Seems simple, but then it's like, well, now their school. Now he's like, where's their lovey? Where are the pajamas? Who did the school project? How do you communicate? Right. So there's always going to be those issues. Um what we hear a lot, and I this is where you two would say, well, it depends, is that if the parent who the child is with is involved in delivering them, right, driving them to the other parent's house, there is a belief that that can show, like, I support you going to the other parent's home. I think this is a good idea. You know, I am an adult that you trust and love, and I care about you, and I am bringing you to this place. And I wouldn't if I didn't support your relationship with them, as opposed to the other parents swooping in and taking them from a place that they are comfortable. Yeah. Um, and whether that is true for every kid, I imagine would depend on the kid themselves and the situation. Um, and you know, are we talking about down the street or across Ottawa or across the country?

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. I mean, what comes to mind though is what can be so challenging is I don't think it's in your best interest to be over there because of all my reasons why I don't think they're a good parent. And I just I've just I've try to put myself in that that position of like, I can't imagine delivering my child somewhere that I know is gonna be harmful to them. And then being the one that's like, no, you must. You must.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's where it becomes hard, right? We see that in our work where sometimes the children are sort of mirroring the other parent. Yeah. Right. So they hear the parent talking about the other parent over the phone, they hear them talking ill of them, and and they're they're mirroring that. Yeah. So yes, I trust you as a loving parent, but I also know that you don't trust this person. Exactly. And this is where you want me to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And if I trust you and you're saying that that the other parent is a bad person, then I think the other parent is a bad person.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, there's a parental alienation. Yes, it can exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

In the really awful extreme cases, it can get there. Yeah. It's like, no, I never want to see you again. Yeah. And you explore it with the kid in therapy, and it's like, the kid actually has no reason to feel this way, but somebody's heard. What they've heard and read and seen, and all the adults in their life are saying the other person's a bad person. And that now their narrative now is the same as that.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a complicated, it's it's complicated.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's what I was just thinking too.

SPEAKER_01:

Now I do know I I just wanted to redirect if that's okay. Because I know that one thing that you wanted to talk about is sort of the future of Fresh Legal. What you want to, what your vision for Fresh Legal is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So one thing I've always wanted to do, and we've finally started working towards it, is being more of a place where people can go to be connected with whatever they need, um, and working more with professionals outside of the legal world.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, having it, it I've always placed a high value on being able to connect people with those resources. So I have a lot of relationships with financial planners and realtors and therapists. And if somebody needs something, I can probably find somebody who can help, but to make it even easier, right? Because divorce and separation is awful. Right. A one-stop shop of if I come to Fresh Legal, not only am I finding a lawyer, but that lawyer also, you know, there's also a therapist, you know, real close by or connected, who I am being connected with, right? Because, like you said, people come to us at the one of the very worst points in their entire life. And they're exhausted. And they know they need a lawyer and a realtor and a therapist and a financial planner. But if you say to them, go find a therapist, you could really use some therapy. They're like, I have to go to Google one more time and find therapist near me, realtor near me, lawyer. Like if I have to tell one more person and ask who they talk to, I cannot, I cannot keep putting up the effort. Yeah. Right. So we have started working with um a certified financial planner at Pulse Wealth Management who offers with us an integrated financial planning service. Amazing. So when our clients are saying, you know, should I keep the house?

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Can I keep the house? All I can answer is, well, here are all of your legal options.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, if you want to keep the house, here's what you owe the other person. If you sell it, here's what you'll get. If you uh are bought out, here's what you'll get. Here's your legal arguments for both sides. Okay. I can help them sort all that stuff out. But if they say, but should I? Like, I don't lawyer. I am not my scope of practice. Absolutely not my scope of practice, right? So now they can connect with um Melanie Goodhue at Pulse Wealth Management to get that information. Amazing. And the same goes for like, how do I support my child through this? Or my spouse keeps on emailing me and calling me, and I don't know how to deal with this. And can you make it stop? Right. Right. Often the answer is there's not a legal solution to your problem because your problem's not even a legal problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I can go get a court order that says don't email them, right? Um, but that is far less effective sometimes than a court order that says give them$100 a month.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Somebody who's ordered to give you child support, there are other bodies, the family responsibility office, whose job it is to go to them and get your$100 and give it to you. Right. Um, so then it becomes, well, how do I survive this? How do I thrive? What do I do? How do I set boundaries? I'm like, I can give you lots of ideas, but at the end of the day, you know, working with a mental health professional, working with a therapist, going somewhere like MindSpa and getting the support you need to figure all this stuff out, right?

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

So a center at which all of that is available, right? Or maybe we're not all in the same place, but we working with us is as easy as it can possibly be.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Um, that you don't have to put in all of the effort to find the professionals you need.

SPEAKER_01:

I know in our line of work, one of the biggest barriers for people is they reach out to a bunch of places and then nobody gets back to them. And it was already hard enough for them to go through the process to decide on who to reach out to.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, I made that one phone call and I've used all of my resources. Right. I'm done.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. And so for you guys, you know that you're in contact with clinics that you know are available, waiting to hear from you, waiting to connect with your clients.

SPEAKER_03:

Understand separation, understand divorce, know what our clients need, that I can send an email and say, Hey, Tina, hey, Michelle, I want to introduce you to this person. And they've given me permission to tell you this little bit about what's going on for them, and here's where they're at, and here's, you know, we have a court date coming up and they're really struggling with XYZ.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. That's hugely important, especially because when folks start the process, they don't even know what the end looks like, right? They don't know that they're going to end up needing to talk to somebody about their finances or that it might get overwhelming for the child, right? They just know that they're making a decision, they're coming to speak with you, but because you've seen what the beginning looks like from the end, you kind of have things in place. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

One of the first questions I ask all the people I work with in mediation and legal clients is what supports do you have? You know, do you have family in town? Do you have friends in town? Right. From a safety perspective, if we are doing safety planning, you know, who do you know that you can call or go to quickly?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Who do you know who you could tell that you have court or mediation who will call to check in on you? Do you have a therapist? Do you have a financial planner? Who have you talked to? What resources do you have to support you through this? And every single one of them, I'm saying, do you have a therapist? Everybody needs a therapist. And I'm not telling you that because you're going through a separation or divorce, but that does make it maybe more pressing. Sure. But I have yet to meet a person in my life who wouldn't benefit from sitting down and talking to somebody. Right. So if you don't have one, how are we going to get you in touch with somebody? Uh, the wonderful thing is as time passes, the trends are more and more people I talk to are like, I've got a therapist. Actually, I already talked to them yesterday, actually have an appointment booked for right after this one, or they actually are the one who gave me your ready. Yeah, right. There's a lot less stigma about all sorts of therapy. So most of my clients already have that or are very willing to get that.

SPEAKER_01:

I think there's a recognition too that this if if no other time in life would it be appropriate for me to have this and there'd be zero shame in it, it's when I'm going through a separation or something. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

Like we mentioned, they're grieving. Yeah. And so if if a significant person in your life passes away and you said, I'm going to therapy, all your friends would be like, of course you always do that.

SPEAKER_02:

Support that you're needing.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Yeah. And it's the same thing. Like you are grieving. Yeah. You are rebuilding, and you can't do that by yourself. There's a whole bunch of people you need in the room.

SPEAKER_01:

I love this. This is so like holistic, which you just don't, I don't equate to the legal world at all. I have to be honest. Um, we see this all the time in our lines of work. Oh, we want this holistic practice that has all these other things integrated into it. But to see it in the legal way is so beautiful because it just feels so much more caring, so much more protective, so much more like you said, like you're gonna be able to achieve that. This is the hardest thing you've ever been through, but we're gonna try to make it as easy as possible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

That collaboration is huge for folks and it changes their experience. Yeah. You know, of a difficult life situation that you're going through, but having those supports in place make you said makes it a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Yeah. And the the idea that we ultimately always have is that it's not that there's a separate like separation's the legal word, right? Yeah, breakdown of the relationship is the legal world. Um, but it's not something that's broken, right? It's something that's being rebuilt. Right. It's not that you have separated and and now especially if there's kids, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You're just building, you're rebuilding a sense of what your family looks like.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here today. We have been lovely to conversation. We can probably talk for an hour. We can go on and on. Yeah. That's what's good. Yeah. A good start. We can always have a back. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, thank you so much. So that wraps up today's episode of the MindSpa podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember to reach out to us at the mindspot.io.

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