The MindSpa Podcast
The MindSpa Podcast is your go-to space for meaningful conversations around mental health, healing, and personal growth. Hosted by Michelle Massunken RSW and Tina Wilston RP, co-founders of MindSpa Mental Health Centre, each episode explores key mental health topics through expert interviews and thoughtful roundtable discussions.
From managing stress and building stronger relationships to navigating invisible challenges, the MindSpa Podcast offers grounded, professional insights in a warm and accessible way. Tune in weekly for supportive, real-world conversations to help you feel seen, supported, and empowered on your wellness journey.
The MindSpa Podcast
Ep 26 When Boundaries Meet Culture, Feelings, And Real Life, How Do You Decide Who’s In The Wrong?
What if doing the healthy thing makes you look like the villain? We dive into real “Am I the a-hole?” scenarios and unpack why good boundaries can still spark backlash—especially when culture, grief, or health are in the mix. From a no-drop-in rule that clashes with collectivist norms to a sister who calls “therapy talk” manipulative, we examine how delivery, timing, and respect shape whether limits land as care or contempt.
We also take on privacy at a therapy clinic where cameras are framed as safety but risk trust and confidentiality. You’ll hear how to challenge policies without blowing up your job: document concerns, propose alternatives, and push for clear written standards. In a family dispute over a promised heirloom locket missing from the will, we map a path that preserves dignity—honour the relationship, clarify facts, and, where possible, trade wins for grace.
Then comes the heartache: a partner with severe pet allergies and an 11-year bond with a senior dog. We talk practical mitigation—HEPA filters, zoning, textiles, grooming—and when separate living makes more sense than resentment. And for parents navigating teen insomnia, we share science-backed sleep hygiene and the one thing that actually gets buy-in: collaboration. Replace screens with low-arousal routines, step change the cutoff, and measure success by daytime energy, not compliance.
If you’re wrestling with boundaries at home or work, this conversation offers scripts, strategies, and a kinder way to hold the line. Follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review—what scenario challenged you the most?
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the MindSpa Podcast. Today we're gonna talk through a couple scenarios and discuss if the sender, if the poster is the a hole in the different scenarios that we're talking about. So let's get right into it. I'll start. So I, a 33-year-old female, finally moved into my own condo after years of living with my parents. I love them, but they're always treating my space like an open door cafe. Within the first week, my mom came over three times. Once just to check the fridge. So I sent a family group text. Hey guys, I'm adjusting to my new space. Please text before coming over. No pop-ins for a bit while I get settled. My mom started crying on the phone saying that I was turning my back on family. My brother said I've become cold and clinical since therapy. Now everyone's calling me uptight. I just want privacy. Am I the a-hole for enforcing a no-drop-in boundary?
Speaker 1:I love this. That's funny. Can you share with us what you said uh after you read it for the first time?
Speaker 2:It's funny because when I read this, I was like, her mom sounds like she's African. You know, and and I think it's so funny because in in my culture, the Genyan culture, like family ties are so a part of the culture, right? It's whether it's your immediate family, your extended family, but it's a big part of your culture. And so for mom to be coming in and just checking on your fridge, it's more coming from a place of like care and support and like social obligation of like, is my daughter eating well?
Speaker 1:Does she have enough 33?
Speaker 2:I mean, if you've lived with them for years and you just moved out for the first time on your own, like you're still new to the game.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You're still new to the game. You're not like out on your own for, you know, you haven't gone out on your own, went lived on your own for school, for example, and then you got your own place. Now you're like married with kids. This is your first time living on your own, right? And so from a cultural perspective, I can see that being very normal. Okay. I can see that being very normal. And the idea of being able to set that boundary is going to be a delicate, fine line that you're gonna have to learn how to walk.
Speaker 1:So if it was in this culture, she should have handled that differently if she wanted a different result. Like to you how she handled it and the result she got your idea. Yeah. Hello. Yeah, exactly. What do you mean?
unknown:Okay.
Speaker 2:So again, that those are that's context, right? And so those are things that are different because you could definitely set boundaries culturally without it feeling disrespectful. Okay. Right. And so how would that be? It might be a face-to-face conversation. Ah, so not via text, not a group text, right? Okay, it might be a hey guys, I want to be able to welcome you guys well. I want to be able to have you guys come over and be prepared for your visit. Can you guys give me until the end of September to be prepared for your visit? Right? It's almost like you're doing a little dance with it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Um, versus like the hard, especially because her response is like in it's um, it's more reactive than proactive.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right? Of like, you guys did this and you did this and you did this, and now this is what I'm telling you to do in return. Okay. So I think those are things that would be different. Um, definitely she's not the a-hole in that. Again, it depends on how it's presented.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and how it's how it's um, yeah, how it's presented to the family, and that's gonna determine how it's received. Right. And in this case, it was thought well.
Speaker 1:It was not well received. That's so that's so interesting because I think that something that's challenging, I imagine, for anybody in Canada is if they're coming from a collectivist culture background, but they are now in a Canadian individualistic culture, right? Which creates this is a perfect example of how those rules can be different across culture. Exactly. Although I think that there's actually a lot of subcultures within Canada that that this would actually relate to as well. I think of Italian culture, Greek culture, that type of stuff. I actually think there's more collectivist in in that cultural background as well. So I think you could see, sorry, someone's saying there's something that stuck out to me out of a curiosity is was the use of the word cafe, which made that sound like they are coming and consuming oh right, eating all my stuff. They're like, look at so I I I don't feel fully clear if that's part of what the issue is of like you're coming and acting like it's a free-for-all from my fridge and that type of thing. Now, would that be normal? Because you are saying this is more I need to fill your fridge full of good stuff to make sure you're eating well. Yeah. But is there anything also like, but I will also take what I want? Yeah, it's communal. Right, okay. There's no yours, there's no mine, there's no. Come on, come all.
Speaker 2:Like, okay. You know, it's one of those things, like even for like Christmas dinners or Thanksgiving dinners, like you're leaving a tuple where it's full of food, right? Like it's like it's it's the communal piece that's so ingrained in the culture that it's a part of like this is for us. Right.
Speaker 1:So when you prepare food, what are you thinking there's 10 people, I need 20 people's worth of food because I need to make sure everybody leaves with something? For like a like a um like a holiday dinner? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:You're gonna you're ordering more than what you're or you're cooking more than what your guests are gonna think or are gonna be, just so that you can and so they leave with a to-go.
Speaker 1:So if let's say you make something and you and you don't have enough, will there be talk afterwards? Like, oh Michelle, she just they ran out of food. Because like we all ate very well, we were all stuffed, nobody ate another bite, but I didn't get my takeout container. Therefore, Michelle like is that a social faux pas? Is that like shouldn't do that?
Speaker 2:I don't think they'll talk about it. I don't think it's you're not gonna be like, I can't believe she did not have takeout containers for us.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker 2:Um no, it I don't think so. You wouldn't be, it wouldn't be that. I think it's um it and again, it depends on the I'm just thinking, like, depends on who is hosting you, right? But a lot of times, like it's it's expect, not expected, but it's part of it. Like you know, you're something's like, oh, where are the takeouts? Like, where are the takeout containers? Like you have the big set of containers from Costco and you're giving them out. Like it's just what is done, right? And so but it wouldn't, you wouldn't be like shunned for not having takeout containers at like your Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker 1:Because food is legitimately getting a lot more expensive these days. I can see some people being like, I just I can't afford to have or the extra takeout containers. What what about the not announcing that I'm coming over, that piece to it where I don't let you know I'm on my way over? What what is how is that handled for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think that I mean, I think even though there are the cultural norms and the cultural differences, I think that there are still some things that we want to adhere to, right? And so I think just being in the Western culture, those are minor things. Even if it's like, hey, I'm five minutes from your house, are you home? Like that's still more acceptable than to just show up unannounced, right?
Speaker 1:The door knocking.
Speaker 2:Especially when you're working, you're on a Zoom call, like those are things that I think could be coming out of the shower. A lot of those, you know, factors. And so I think that there's definitely some aspects that, yeah, they might be, and again, we don't know what this person's culture, but they might be cultural, but there's still a level of like boundary settings that could be established. And would be acceptable, would be accepted.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right? Like it would make sense. It's just again, how is it that I'm presenting that?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:How is that um how is how am I sharing that expectation? Does it feel like it's disrespectful because it's this text message in a group chat forum?
Speaker 1:Or kind of calling someone out, putting them on blast.
Speaker 2:Because you know who you're talking about and they know who you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So let's have that conversation. So I think those are factors that would be taken to consideration. But again, you're not the AHO for that. It's more of like, how's my approach? And does my approach fit the situation? Right. What are your thoughts on this one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say, I mean, in in a lot of ways, I think we're agreeing about the same thing, which is that uh it I think that it's really healthy to say, I don't want you just dropping in, but there are ways to say things, and I definitely think a public call out anytime is just never, it's never going to uh go well.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 1:But also what I'm hearing a little bit is some emotional immaturity on mom's side, because if her response is just crying on the phone versus starting with a hey, I hear you, I don't enjoy how you did a call out. I would have appreciated perhaps a conversation. And I would hope that a parent figure would have the emotional maturity to actually handle that differently and not immediately go into because to me, I hear guilt. I'm gonna guilt you into backtracking on this because I'm gonna go straight to tears.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 1:Um, so there's a little bit there where I'm kind of like, why didn't mom handle that any differently?
Speaker 2:Uh was she trying and or how's she interpreting it, right? Like, are you trying to is like is she interpreting as like, oh, this is it, like I'm trying to cut ties with, like, is she over catastrophizing this, right? Right. That's another good point. Yeah. Yeah. Because like when I'm just trying to set a home boundary with the mom, I'm I'm okay to you. It's late for just two weeks. Give me two weeks.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But that could be a factor there too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And the the just the brother kind of coming in is the sort of other piece with cold and clinical sense therapy piece. I find that really interesting. What does that even mean? Well, okay, so I think there's a lot of people out there that go to therapy, they learn about boundaries. They're like, oh, I didn't know that boundaries were a thing with family. Okay. They learn about it, they start trying to like institute it at home. And we've oh we've always seen that usually the people you the person you're trying to put the boundary on doesn't necessarily like it. If you do know what I mean, like if we have somebody in therapy and they require to set healthy boundaries with someone, odds are that type of person is not the type of person that enjoys having those boundaries set.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because otherwise you wouldn't have need to set it in the first place. They would just know not to cross boundaries. So I think that very often we go, oh, because of the way that they're reacting, I must not, yeah, I must be in the wrong here. But Mike, again, you try to set a healthy boundary, cold and clinical, and then I'm gonna throw you, throw into like since you started therapy. Since you started therapy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Feels like a little bit of a low glow. Yeah. Which is very common, right? And I always tell my cli my clients, like, it it's not always a popular vote when you start to assert yourself. And people don't like it when you start to assert yourself, when you start to have the backbone, when you start to set clear boundaries, when you set boundaries, you're really reinforcing your own confidence. Yeah, you're reinforcing your energy, you're reinforcing every line and what your time looks like. And so for folks who have been so used to it being a free-for-all, yeah, of being able to do what they want, when they want, however they want, for you and for them, this is a huge shift. Yeah. And a change for them. And so, yeah, that's this is what happens when you start to assert yourself when you're no longer being passive or passive aggressive. It's not always a popular nope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not popular amongst others. Actually, change people just don't like when people in their lives change in general. Yeah. So you think about that person that used to maybe not go to the gym and eat junk food, and then they're like, now I'm gonna eat healthy and start going to the gym. The people around them can often be like, wait, I like eating junk food. Right, what's happening? Also eating it, so I don't feel so bad. Right. So I find that as soon as you try to change in a family dynamic, you can get pushback. Yeah. Next one. Sure. Okay. Therapy talk at the table. Am I the a-hole for using therapy language during a fight with my sister? My sister and I got into an argument about how she never follows through on plans. I told her I feel hurt when you cancel last minute. It makes me feel unimportant. We like that statement. That isn't yeah, you'd I can see how you'd learn that in therapy. Right? She rolled her eyes. Uh don't therapy me. Just say you're mad. I wasn't trying to manipulate her. I've been working on communicating better since starting therapy, but now she's telling the family I'm emotionally controlling. Ooh. Uh, was I wrong for using eye statements or is she being defensive? What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Um, where do I even start? Right. No, I think that um I think that it can be very helpful when you're able to clarify your own feelings. And the best way to clarify your own feelings is by using I statements. It's it's so much easier for us to, our default is almost to be like, you made me mad when you did this and when you said this, and whatever the case is, it's so much easier to point fingers, but it takes a lot more effort to be able to reflect on how I'm feeling and use I statements.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so for her to be able to do that while her emotions are as intense as they were, like that's brilliant. Hats off to her because she's able to take what she's been learning in therapy and use it in a high intense situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And again, if the other person isn't at that same level of emotional awareness or intelligence, they may not understand what she's doing and what effort it took for her to do what she did. Yeah. They might say, well, just point fingers at me and tell me that you're mad or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 1:Because I want to be mad back at you. Exactly. And I can't be mad back at you when you say it like that. Like, where do I go with that? That just makes me the a-hole. I don't like this feeling.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So I think it's, I think it's, I don't think she's the a-hole. I think that she is using um the skills that she learned. She's using eye statements, she's making it clear where she's at emotionally and not allowing um her to point the fingers at other people, but to reflect, okay, how am I feeling and why am I feeling the way that I'm feeling? Um, and it takes a level of maturity to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love it.
Speaker 2:Um I think it could be a hole-ish if you're sort of like, oh, you're so narcissistic, or like you're using like therapy word, like you know what I mean, when it gets into the name calling and the diagnosing and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes. Oh, yes, that's a good point. That is like that is not a great way to use what you're learning in therapy, is to like weaponize labeling against other people, but that's not what's happening here at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think she's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so what am I thinking? Well, what this is what I find interesting is I wasn't trying to manipulate her. So I'm kind of curious if that's like she's just saying the one statement that her sister said, but like clearly she's being made to feel like I'm being manipulative with this therapy talk. And this is what's actually like we see this all the time actually in social media, is you actually see it getting weaponized against people and used to manipulate. Um, and it it's trying to differentiate what what does that look like? And it's actually to me, it's actually ironic of all the ways that you could take what you're learning in therapy and apply it. I statements is one of the least manipulative, like ones that could ever even be used in a manipulative way.
Speaker 2:It's really about you, like you're talking about how you're feeling in the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And also, why is it why is that so bothersome to the sister that I said I feel hurt and unimportant when you cancel? What why do you want her to say this? Why is that actually a problematic statement?
Speaker 2:Just say you're mad. Okay. I'm mad that I feel like yeah, no, she's I don't I don't know how you would have spent how he could spin that in a way that no, and again, it just speaks sometimes again the projection that happens, right? Where it's like, okay, where are you? What's going on with you?
Speaker 1:Projection, yes. Projection.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That I think is what we're seeing here.
Speaker 2:It has to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, project projection. Oh, we could do a whole episode on projection.
Speaker 2:But I'm like, I'm just trying to figure out where she's coming off with this, and it's like, okay, you're the one who's mad. Right. She's good. Right. Because she's clear with how she's feeling, and she was able to communicate that clearly, but you're you're not okay with that, and you want her to be where you're at in terms of how you're dealing with this emotionally, but she's not where you're at.
Speaker 1:And so and you know what we're not talking about now? What is the fact that her sister cancels all the time. Do you know what I mean? Like there's now it's about how you said that you were upset with me for canceling, and that's now what the whole conversation is about.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, that's so true. Right. And that happens, right? And sometimes we can get into that where I always call it like taking the bait, right? We take the bait, and now we've kind of completely lost sight of what the whole issue was to begin with. And now we're talking about how I express myself, right? And how the way I express myself is not aligned with how you want me to express myself. Yeah. But the fact that you always cancel is no longer the topic of discussion at this point. And so when we take the bait with folks who haven't always done the work that we've done, this is how it can look.
Speaker 1:It's funny because I'm just kind of curious how sister would have responded if she said, I'm mad that you cancel all the time. Like I'm just wondering how she actually would have handled it. Then what? Because sometimes too, people are like, if you just did this, and you actually go, Wait, no, if I actually did that, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't go well. That's not actually true.
Speaker 2:So instead of me being direct, she's working on her communication. And so she's communicating with her much differently based on what she's learned. Um and again, whenever we do new things, people are not always gonna be fan of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's how it goes sometimes. Also, like you're highlighting your emotional maturity over mine. I don't like this feeling. Yeah. Do you want to read the next one?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay, so I work at a small mental health clinic. Our manager installed cameras in the waiting room for safety, but but one points directly at the reception desk where we eat lunch when clients aren't around. One day I unplugged it while eating because I felt uncomfortable being filmed chewing in silence. HR found out and called it a security breach. I get that safety matters, but can't we have some privacy at work? Am I the a-hole for unplugging the camera?
Speaker 1:I have so many thoughts. I mean, my first thought is uh that sounds like a really big confidentiality issue of having um cameras at a therapy clinic, right? I'm pretty sure I would not do I would find a million other safety precautions before I would ever put a camera in a therapy clinic. Right. So that's number one. That's a good point.
Speaker 2:Why is there a camera at the therapy clinic? Yeah. Yeah. And so again, the idea, like and I think it comes back to the intention too, right? Like so let's say there is a valid reason for the cameras being there, which I again I I have a hard time agreeing with that. I'm trying to figure out like why there's cameras in there. But um, let's say there's a good reason.
Speaker 1:We'll go with it.
Speaker 2:Sure. Um to unplug it, I think it comes back to the intention, right? Like you're not plugging it to do anything malicious or to do anything that is contrary to the safety policies of the clinic. Right. It's more of just like I I have to eat here. Yeah I'd rather not have anybody watching me eat. There's no clients in the space, and so there's nothing safety to be worried about being monitored at this point in time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You're really just gonna be watching me eat.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, um, in that case, like I I can see that being okay, being able to unplug that. And again, it depends on how it's done, right? Is that communicated? Am I being sneaky about it?
Speaker 1:You got it. I think how's that core issue? If you don't think you're doing anything wrong, is there a reason you decide to ask for forgiveness instead of permission?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, has this come up before? It's like, hey, manager, I know we have cameras for safety, but I feel very uncomfortable whenever lunchtime comes around and I have to eat in front of the camera. Like, has there been a discussion before around this and has it been ignored? Like, what are the dynamics around this camera piece or the discussions that have happened around this camera? Or is this the first anyone's hearing that you're uncomfortable eating in front of the camera?
Speaker:Yeah. Right?
Speaker 2:Like there's an account level of accountability, I think, and responsibility that the poster has to take in all of this. Um, and that's obviously why they're being talked to about it because it's never perhaps come up as an issue.
Speaker 1:I asked if I could, because well, it obviously they didn't actually, because they either would have said no, you can't. Exactly. And then you're doing it knowing that you're not supposed to, which you didn't say, or you're just saying, I asked, they said no, am I the a-hole for wanting it? Definitely not. We can identify that, like not feeling comfortable with that camera on you when you're trying to eat in this environment. I completely get that. And having privacy at work, like it is really interesting. Before we had the ability to have cameras everywhere, the world functioned. And so is it necessary to have cameras up everywhere? I would say no. Is that terrible for people's sense of privacy and well-being? I think it's bad. So I think we could agree that having cameras just because we can doesn't mean we should and we shouldn't hang it on well, it's for a safety. I don't know. I I don't I don't like that piece too, right? But the piece that I'm really stuck on is you absolutely should talk to them. You know that like I your place of business has something there for a reason, and you're just gonna take it upon yourself without any kind of discussion to unplug it. Yeah, you're in the wrong. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. All right. Okay, we've got grandma's heirloom. Am I the a-hole for keeping my grandmother's necklace even though it wasn't in her will? Before my grandma passed, she told me, 23-year-old female, I could have her locket. It has our initials inside. When she died, the official will didn't mention it. My aunt who's handling this date says, if it's not written, it's not yours. I already had it in my possession and I told her I'm keeping it for sentimental reasons. Now the family says I stole from the dead. It feels wrong to give up something that meant so much to us both. Am I the a-hole for keeping it?
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you think?
Speaker 2:That's tough because there's so much emotional connection to it, too. Right? It's almost like there's it's there's a lot of layers to this one because there's the family dynamics, everyone's grieving, because the emotions perhaps are high in that time frame as well. So being able to have rational, logical conversations around, okay, well, what did grandma say before she passed? And where is this supposed to go if it's not going to me? Like having those kind of conversations sometimes can be difficult when grief is at the forefront of things. Absolutely. Um, but it sounds like that's a necessary step in all this is to have that conversation around, like, okay, well, who's who is it to be? Because it's not in the will. It's not in the will. So where is it gonna go? Right? Like, what does Auntie have in mind for it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but then also for the poster to be able to share that this was a discussion that they had before her passing, yeah. Um, and that she has no intention of stealing from the dead, but this is what she and her grandmother had discussed. I think that that that holds weight and value to the conversation as well.
Speaker 1:Um it could not be in the will mainly because, in grandma's opinion, it I'd already bequeathed it before I passed away. That's a good thing. The fact that it's already in her possession sort of tells you like she didn't actually steal, if anything, she stole from the living, yeah, technically, right? Right, because she had in her possession before the person passed away. Yeah. I understand if, like, I'm sorry, but we're at awake and she's removing it from she could have this. Okay, that's a but it's almost like they're making her feel that's that's what happened. What she did, and that's horrifying. If someone accused you of doing that, that's obviously horrifying. So yeah, there's something, um, that's a really good point though. I didn't actually think about that piece of like, well, what then where is it going if it's not in the will? So you just want to take it from and it's not and it's not a high, it does not sound like a high value um object from a price point.
Speaker 2:Right. It's a locket, it's more just emotional, yeah, emotional value that it has than anything. Right. But if there were discussions around that, then I mean, I wouldn't want to. I feel that's ch challenging though, right? When it comes to like loss and grief, the emotions are so intense and so high, and that's where again a lot of family conflict comes during like estates and all those moments, right? It gets really, really confusing and complicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, but I I would definitely have that conversation around okay, well, what what do we want this to look like? Right? Where can this possibly go? What is the plan if not in my possession? Yeah. Um, but I would be very reluctant to just give it up because the aunt says so. Yeah. It's not in the will, it's also in my possession.
Speaker 1:I'd be curious too. They're talking about the ant. What did they say? Who now the family says I saw from the family's against the stuff? Yeah, the family said it. So that's actually really interesting that there's more than just auntie who's saying that it's wrong. Right. Um, I don't know. This one is this the to me, there is a mismatch. Whenever I hear these types of stories, I'm often like, I feel like there's details missing.
Speaker 2:There's more to it.
Speaker 1:There's details missing because there's both sides don't quite make sense in the sense of like, why would they be accusing you of stealing from the dead if you were already in possession of it? So what would make sense is through the grieving process, we're all at the home. I remember that conversation, I see it on the nightstand, I put it in my pocket knowing that she wanted it for me. And then it comes, do you know what I mean? Then it comes out that it's not in the will for me, and now it's in debate. That makes sense. What also like potentially, yeah, that's it. That's the only way. I don't see a scenario in which what she's saying happened, she gave it to me beforehand, that anybody is gonna actually phrase it like you stole from the dead. That there's something about like who would ever say that? Where's that coming from? That's a pretty deep statement. It is, yeah. And it's not in alignment with like there's no like thread you can pull on that and say that they would be in the right if she already had it in her possession before grandma passed away. Right. So we see this a lot in therapy where we're like, I feel like there could be some details, some very important pieces. Yeah, yeah. But on the surface, I would say, like, based on what we do know, I'm going, I I don't understand how that's dealing from anyone. And it does make sense. There's there's a there is something that ties in of what does make sense is why it's not in the will. Yeah, because you already had it. If I gave something to somebody, I'm not gonna write that in my will that she gets it if I already gave it something.
Speaker 2:We're talking about things that are not assigned yet.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I don't know. We don't know.
Speaker 2:So all right. So the pet versus partner stand on. So I had my dog, Rocky. Hey Rocky, Rocky for 11 years. He's old, gentle, and honestly, my emotional support. My boyfriend recently moved in and discovered he's severely allergic. He wants Rocky to live outside or go to my parents' place until he passes. I said, No, I'm not abandoning my dog in his final years. He says, I'm choosing a pet over our relationship. Am I the a-hole for standing my ground? Oh my god.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, that's an you know what though, I have actually seen this one before uh in a different iteration though, where it was sort of like we're all living together, and then um, like a new partner comes in and they bring the animal into the house, and then somebody in the house is very, very allergic. Because this is what I struggle with. I do know that if you are severely allergic, the impact on your overall physical health is actually very detrimental because being in this constant state of allergic reaction actually is more than just annoying stuffy nose, watery eyes, itchy eyes, and that type of stuff. There's bigger implications to your immune system. Right. So I get that. I I actually really get that really deeply, but this flip side of like, oh, just leave him outside, or or have him not live after 11 years emotional, like that this is my baby. It's up. Do you know what I mean? Like it's actually not that straightforward. And and I think it can be, I don't know, it can be very dismissive to assume it can be that easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that's especially in because I think she said like it's a senior dog as well, too, right? Like those are all important factors and just the emotional attachment that she would have to her dog, the sense of like feeling as if she's gonna abandon him in his final years, like the impact that that one decision could have on just her, not just on the dog or on the relationship, but even just her own sense of self, yeah. The impact that that would have in making. That kind of decision. Like that would impact how she relates to you now. Yeah. In the dynamic of the relationship.
Speaker 1:Like that's a core values conflict that you're putting them in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are kind of the worst situations in a relationship.
Speaker 2:It really is. Yeah. And that's going to be, yeah, it's going to shift how she interacts with you now. Because again, you're highlighting the value shifts, right? You're highlighting the differences in values. And I think that's going to be a challenging, um, a challenging piece for her to be able to simply just do. It's not that easy. It's not that that straightforward by any means.
Speaker 1:I have a slight actually like confusion, maybe also of how are we just figuring this out? I would have thought if you're severely allergic, every time you come visit me, you'd be having that reaction. And also, if you're severe, potentially my clothes and that type of stuff would have triggered you even at your own house. And so I would be like, like, what do you think? Okay, this is where my mind's going. What would you think if it was like, okay, well, we'll live together after the dog passes? They are at the end. Let's just wait to end together. Is that like would a partner have the right to feel a kind of way about your delaying us moving to that next step because of a dog? Is that like you're not valuing our relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It could be that way. I think it depends on like when that decision or conversation is had. In this case, here he's already moved in. Yeah. He already let go of his own place. So yeah. So it's like I, you know, perhaps when he was coming in for the short visits, he didn't notice the intensity of his allergies. I don't know, but with prolonged exposure to the I have allergies and it does not take me long to like be in that house.
Speaker 1:Like, but like for di a dinner, by the end of the dinner, I'm like not not well. Okay, well, we should have known that. And I don't have severe. I don't have severe. I'd say I have like and it's the dogs? Uh yeah. Yeah. Some dogs.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Not mine. Thank God. Right. Right. But some dogs.
Speaker 2:So that's the challenging part. I think that's an important conversation to have, but perhaps one that they should have had before he moved in. But now that he's in, like, where do we go from here? Like, do you now go look for your own place and then come back after he passes? I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, nobody's the a-hole here. That's the thing, right? It's like it's actually really reasonable that you're saying, I'm miserable, and this is really bad for my overall health. Not just this isn't just annoying. This is actually not good for my overall health.
Speaker 2:But also But the options you're giving her are not all like they're not no.
Speaker 1:You do that.
Speaker 2:They're pretty extreme. Yeah. I don't think that's a fair, those are not compromises. Can't be Canada to be outside. Those are not uh fair compromises. Like, is there a way to like separate spaces? Like, is there an upstairs or downstairs? Like, are there other options that we could think about other than rehoming the dog or having the dog live outside?
Speaker 1:Because I would definitely say containing the dog probably wouldn't be that detrimental to a more sedentary, isn't doing well, that kind of stuff. Like, should he be in the bed? Definitely no. Or one of them shouldn't be right. I don't know, boyfriend or dog. But like that can't be in the same space as that way. Yeah, not like that, but yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gonna be a tough one. That is a tough one, especially when it comes to values, like you said. I think that's where it makes it difficult to be able to say, like, you know, you're the a-hole, you're not the a-hole, because it's really what your values are, right? And so we can't really. But that's a tough one. It is.
Speaker 1:In fairness. Okay. Screens off at nine. I love this one. This one is an interesting one because I think it's a hotly debated topic. So my 15-year-old daughter struggles with anxiety and insomnia. Her therapist suggested better sleep hygiene. So I set a house rule, no phones, tablets, or gaming after 9 p.m. Her uh, my ex, her dad, thinks it's too strict and told her she can use her phone as late as she wants at his place. Now she's angry at me and saying I'm controlling. I'm just trying to follow clinical advice. Am I the a-hole for holding line? I'm so curious about your opinion on this because you are my specialist of insomnia. You know, sleep hygiene, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And also you're a therapist conveniently. So if you're the therapist giving that advice to mom and she's coming at you saying this, what what are you saying back?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that I mean, we all know that we want to control any stimulus before going to bed, right? And so when mom is saying no phones, no iPads, or whatever else it was that she listed before bed, I mean, that's that's part of sleep hygiene. That's clinically sound for her daughter to have restful and restorative sleep. And so we want to encourage that. We want to be able to endorse that and support that. I think the important thing is the consistency of that. And so if dad is not on board with those basic sleep sleep hygiene techniques, he'll notice that perhaps the daughter's sleep is a little bit different. Yeah. Her ability to fall asleep is gonna be a bit more challenging, right? Because she might have less sleep pressure. And so, does she wake up feeling more groggy when she's at dad's place versus at mom's place? Does that affect how she functions throughout the day now? Because her, because she's more tired and not as rested perhaps as she would have been when she got that 9 p.m. cutoff point. And so I think that uh with mom's approach, she's following what is clinically sound for the betterment of her daughter. It's not a matter of controlling any aspect, it's a matter of what's healthy, what's necessary for you based on how you're feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think that that's being able to put it in that lens is gonna be important, right? This is not just a decision that I'm waking up and making, it's a decision that we've we're given professionally and we recognize the benefits of that to your sleep and wanna maintain that. And the inconsistency of that is gonna show up in the inconsistency of her sleep.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas if we're able to be consistent with that, then she'll consistently have restful and restorative sleep. So hopefully that can get on board.
Speaker 1:You know what's so funny? I am going to play devil's advocate.
Speaker 2:Let's hear it.
Speaker 1:So I want to say a good chunk of my career, not so much now, was spent working with teenagers. And this is a few insights I have from working with teenagers over the years. Being forced to do anything like that, they inherently can get you can get pushback. And so the approach, I'm picturing it, I approach any of my my kids and go, hey, starting today. We've had completely different rules up to this point. Right. Uh, but starting today, no more phones after 9 p.m. Um, I don't think that would go over very well. And me going, your therapist said, I don't think that's actually gonna go over very well in therapy either. And so for me, I would be looking at it more like how do we collaboratively get you on board? So dad's an moot point. Yeah. It doesn't matter what dad wants to do or not. I've got teenager on board with wanting to do this. Yeah. Um, and then we would be looking at how do we, let's say right now you notice you're staying up till midnight. Yeah, how can we get that to 1130?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Then once we get to 11:30, how can we get that? Because ideally we're aiming towards nine.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But honestly, nine sounds really unrealistic. So this is where I this is where I completely understand and I'm 100% behind the facts of needing to get off of it for the insomnia piece. Yeah. But I also know the social life is also tied to the electronics. And so you are cutting off a teenager's social life at 9 p.m. every night. That's like giving them a 9 p.m. curfew at 15 years old. We don't know if she's like 15 almost, 16.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 1:But let's say she is 15, she's three years away from being an adult. And we're saying at 9 p.m. we're cutting off your social life. Yeah. I don't know too many 15-year-olds that would actually get on board with that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, that's a good point. I think that's that context is gonna be important. When you think about like the treatment for insomnia, CBTI, the golden rule is to have an hour window before bed.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so if she's coming off electronics at nine o'clock, the assumption is then that her bedtime is 10 o'clock. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whereas too many 15-year-olds come back at 10, by the way.
Speaker 2:So then that's where her and mom could probably have that conversation around like, okay, what is it that the therapist has said?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right? I know that anxiety is at play. I know that there's insomnia at play. And so what does that what is it that we're trying to achieve here?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're trying to achieve a healthy window.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that I'm feeling calm and rested and ready to go to sleep.
Speaker 1:And being really pissed that I have no electronics use from 9 p.m. is probably not gonna be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not gonna help. I'm not gonna wind up set.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it might be a matter of mom and her being able to talk about okay, what is your bedtime, right? What time do you go to bed? Is it midnight? Is it 11 o'clock?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How what do we want to do the hour before you go to bed?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I think I think when it comes to removing behaviors, whether it's electronics, whether it's any whatever device is, right? It's almost the important thing, I always like to look at it as like this four-legged table. So if I'm gonna remove a leg out of that table, what am I putting in place of it? So if we're taking away the electronics that we tend to fall asleep with before going to bed, what are we putting in place?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So being able to develop that habit and that behavior at mom's place allows her to now continue that at dad's place. Yeah. And so before I go to bed, am I working on a puzzle? Am I reading a book? Am I packing my lunch for the next day? What is it that I'm doing?
Speaker 1:Question. Would talking to a friend on the phone, but like it not being do you know, I mean it's on speaker or whatever, would that be considered a good wind-down activity before bed?
Speaker 2:It depends on the conversation.
Speaker 1:Let's say let's assume it's not Sunday. It's just like, hey, how are you doing? Checking in. Just chatting. Yeah. I can see that being helpful. Okay. Yeah. So because I was curious too, like this no phone. Right. Also, is there a way to to kind of get that need met still where I'm not maybe video gaming, which is like turning my brain on, but I'm I'm instead, but I still get to connect with my friends. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that could be helpful. I think that emotional connection is helpful when some people decide that they're gonna journal before going to bed or whatever the case is. So either way, having some kind of outlet is gonna be helpful and important as long as it's not stimulating. Right. Okay. Yeah. So I think the idea perhaps in this case would be for her, if she feels that's controlling, maybe they talk about what is our bedtime? What do we want to aim for bedtime-wise?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, what do we want to do an hour before we go to bedtime? You can have your phone as long as you want. However, when it comes to bedtime, we want to wind down. And so what does that look like? And then developing that collaboratively so that it doesn't feel as if it's being imposed or being controlled.
Speaker 1:Go help with teenagers. We know this. There's so much science behind, you know, the the develop like, I don't know, just independence development in those teen years. And that's so I wanted to see actually um her therapist. It was her therapist who suggested it. For a second, I was like, wait, who's therapist? But it was the child's therapist. Um, but there there's a piece that I find interesting. So her therapist suggested, so I set a house rule, no phones, tablets, or gaming after 9 p.m. And so it's that I'm just trying to follow clinical advice and the accusation of being controlling because I there is a part of me that's a bit curious. We do uh we do know that those who have a more controlling nature um often will take a kernel of fact or truth and then use it to stand on their laurels for like being controlling. So the fact that there was no like it's just like she said this, so I made this rule now. I'm mad that dad's not following it. Is there something that feels controlling about it? I can't lie. It feels a bit controlling.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I I definitely think not that Awolf are wanting to help her daughter with her anxiety. And so I'm gonna work with the therapist. What I do know too, I think sometimes our suggestions get picking and choosing. There's like a picking and choosing regarding like what we say should or should not be done. Because I'd be surprised if a therapist was just like, you should just set a rule and just make her do it at nine. I don't know. How do we get different o'clock? Yeah. That's it for today's episode of the Mindspot Podcast. If this conversation resonated, I'd love it if you would follow and share. It's a small thing that makes a big difference. The links to our podcast platform on Instagram and YouTube are don't know. Your support helps us create more people and attract them together.
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