S2 · Ep 19: HPN Neurofeedback Basics — Understanding Brain Training And Regulation | Yvonne Burwash | The MindSpa Podcast

Your brain can be brilliant and still get stuck. When it does, more effort is not always the answer, sometimes it needs a nudge. Tina Wilston sits down with Yvonne, our Director of Neurofeedback, to explain Higher Performance Neurofeedback (HPN), a style of neurofeedback that acts more like neuromodulation. We talk about how HPN sends tiny frequencies back to the brain based on what it is already doing, with the aim of interrupting rigid patterns and supporting neuroplasticity. Many clients describe the shift as “clearing out the cobwebs,” especially when stress, trauma, or a head injury knocks them off their baseline.

We get practical about what an HPN session actually looks like, including the five-electrode setup, how we choose placements, and how we decide on levels. We also explain over-stimulation (over-stim), what it can feel like, and why it is usually information rather than a disaster. You will hear how we think about dosing with “sites,” why we start gently, and how some people notice changes within 24 to 48 hours, especially around deeper sleep, calmer nervous system regulation, and reduced panic.

We also dig into who HPN is best for, when traditional neurofeedback is the better long-game, and how HPN can pair beautifully with therapy to create more capacity for trauma processing and clearer thinking. We cover the QEEG brain map question too: when it is best practice, when HPN can be done without it, and the safety screens we take seriously. Finally, we zoom out to peak performance and the real-world reports we have seen, including focus, clarity, and sensory regulation support.

Subscribe for more neurofeedback conversations, share this with someone who is curious about brain-based therapy, and leave a review so more Canadians can find the show. What would you want HPN to help you with?

The MindSpa Podcast

Thoughtful conversations about mental health, relationships, identity, healing, grounded in clinical expertise and steady human insight.

Hosts

Tina Wilston, M.Ed., Registered Psychotherapist 

Co-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health Centre

LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook

Michelle Massunken, MSW, RSW

Co-Owner, MindSpa Mental Health Centre

LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook

MindSpa Mental Health Centre

Ottawa - Kanata & Gloucester

themindspa.ca

LinkedIn, instagram

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Transcript

Welcome And What HPN Is

Tina Wilston 0:01

Okay, welcome back to Mindspot Podcast. This is the next installment of our series on neurofeedback. So today I'm very excited. Yvonne and I, our director of neurofeedback, are gonna be talking about a very specific type of neurofeedback that we do here called higher performance neurofeedback. We call it HPN for short. And we've got some stuff here in front of us. So I'm gonna let you start though with what is HPN?

Speaker 0:27

Yeah, so HPN we sort of classify like as a general type of neurofeedback, but it can also be thought of as like neuromodulation. So it's very different than some of our more traditional forms of neurofeedback.

Speaker 1 0:39

Okay.

Speaker 0:40

In that with HPN, we're actually sending very small frequencies to the brain. Okay. Sort of, you can think of it as like nudging the brain out of a stuck pattern. Okay. So if anyone listened to some of the other podcasts or when we talked about different brain waves, we were talking about how sometimes our brain can get stuck in producing too much or too little of the different waves. So if there's too much high beta or not enough theta or not enough alpha. Um HPN is a type of treatment that can actually kind of act as like a reset in a way. I often pair it with some of our traditional uh types of neurofeedback in a way of let's kind of prime the brain with the HPN and then let's do the learning bit on top of

The Five Electrodes Setup

Speaker 1:28

it.

Tina Wilston 1:28

Okay.

Speaker 1:29

So with HPN, there's five electrodes. Yeah. Um here I'll pull it out actually.

Tina Wilston 1:38

So these are the five electrodes, different colored cords here.

Speaker 1:42

Yes, and that's important. They need to be different colors because the different electrodes are going on very specific areas of the brain. Yeah. Um so one of the electrodes goes on, we put it on the back of the neck. Uh, that's just the ground. So again, we're working with electricity. We need to have a ground involved. So that goes on the back of the neck. Then there's two electrodes that are references. So they're going behind either ear, so on like the mastoid area just behind. Yeah. Um, and those, so those three are not moving, they are staying in place for the tape on them in the fact. Yeah, we use some uh some medical tape here just to keep it in place so it's not moving. Um, and then the last two electrodes are what we call our signal electrodes, and those are the electrodes that are actually doing the um sending of signals, if you will. So how it works is HPN is a little bit more generalized than our traditional neurofeedback. Um, we can still choose placement of where we want to put the electrodes based off of the QEG, but there is a general progression that we can follow. So generally for everybody, we'll start off low. So part of the intake process that I do and asking questions, I'm trying to figure out okay, where would I want to start them off with HPN? So HPN involves different levels within it. Um, and it's not that one level is better than the other, they just are doing different things. So let's say someone who's experienced severe concussions, um, I'm probably gonna start them at level one because it's gonna be um it produces the least amount of signals versus someone who maybe has no concussion history, um, doesn't experience many sensory sensitivities or doesn't find themselves as like very or overly sensitive to medications and like having a lot of side effects. Um, I might start them at like a level two.

Tina Wilston 3:44

Right. So level one is really reserved for very, very sensitive people or sensitive brains. Exactly. And very often after a concussion, the brain is very, very sensitive. So we usually do we start very gently.

Speaker 3:56

Yeah, yeah, because their brain can often respond. Um there's more risk of responding in um, I don't want to say negative, but like in a more negative way of like noticing potential like headache or sleepiness, um, possible dizziness. I've never really had that report, but more so with like headache and and fatigue.

Overstimulation And Starting Gently

Tina Wilston 4:19

And irritability. Yeah, irritability can be one. We call it Overstim in the industry. I can tell a little story of my own overstim. So I was training somebody once with neuro, and I had noticed I didn't often I'd never been overstimulated before. I had done quite a few sites before, and so I had encouraged them just to do all of the sites, the uh which I think ended up being 12. I had them do 12 different sites on the brain because I wanted them to practice every spot. And at first I felt fine and I felt normal, but the next day I was so tired that I am driving and I got a great night's sleep because that's one of the things that uh HPN can really help with, is like deeper, better sleep, particularly at the beginning. And I got a great night's sleep, and I'm driving to work, and I am falling asleep at nine in the morning trying to drive to work that I literally had to physically hold my eye because they kept wanting to close. Yeah. And then later that day, I was I was seeing clients, and then I had a break in my day, and I was actually working in an office without a couch. I just had like an office chair and a comfy chair, but nothing else. Um, and I was so exhausted, I needed to take a nap. I slept on the floor. Oh my office, and fell asleep so deeply. I had to set an alarm. Luckily, I set an alarm. I fell asleep so deeply that I had the creases all over my face when I woke up.

Speaker 5:49

Yeah.

Tina Wilston 5:49

Um, and then had an incredible sleep that night. And then the next day, I was still tired. Well, that's how much I um overstimulated my brain. But that sort of, and and what what why you don't call it necessarily a bad reaction is that with this treatment, while we don't want to do that, we don't want to cause people to have that level of exhaustion, we don't want to make people irritable, we don't want them to get headaches. Yeah, but from a treatment standpoint, that's not a bad thing for their brain. We haven't done anything negative to the brain. If anything, we've pushed it out of its comfort zone and we know it worked. We know that it effectively did tell the brain to stop doing what it was doing.

Speaker 6:27

And that's a good example of like why we start people off lower. So even if there's no like sensitivities or history of concussion or what like what have you, um, even at level two, I start people off level two, maybe like two sites. Yeah. When I say two sites, so again, um the two electrodes that we're putting on, that would be considered one site because whatever we do to the left hemisphere, we're doing to the right. So both electrodes is considered one site. Okay. So if we were to do two sites, it would be the one and then moving one to one other spot. Okay. And that would be two. So we always start off low to minimize the chances of encountering over STEM.

Speaker 1 7:08

Yeah.

Speaker 7:08

But just like you said, for me, I always frame it. If we do encounter over STEM, I'm like, you know what, this is information. Yeah. It's not necessarily a negative, like, of course, it's uncomfortable. Um, and it's not, it's not a fun experience. Goal. Yeah, it's not like our goal, but it gives us information and it tells us that you are responsive to this type of treatment.

Tina Wilston 7:26

Yeah.

Speaker 7:26

And that's a good thing. Yeah. So it's just now we just need to fiddle around and figure out how many sites. How many sites we need to do. And okay, we did let's say, let's say, for example, we did low and we did level two, two sites, and they experienced some level of overstem. Okay, we're gonna go to level one, but maybe we don't need to go to that like two sites. Maybe we can do level one, but do like four sites. Right. Right? Because it's different.

Tina Wilston 7:52

Yeah. It's actually good to find our top end of the treatment because some people it takes a high level and a lot of sites to respond. So we actually save time if we do over stim. But we always explain that to people. We allow them to choose. We're usually like, what do you got going on this next week? Can you handle being a bit more tired or maybe a bit irritable? And if they're like, no, you go, okay, we'll start very slow, very gentle.

Speaker 8:18

Yeah. Yeah. And generally that's like for for a lot of people, because there is this stimulation, or um, I kind of explain like the benefits and risks of doing the HPN.

Trial And Error With Sites

Speaker 8:29

A lot of people are like, you know what, let's just like start low and we'll do the trial and error. Um, and that's usually what it ends up being is like, okay, let's say we do a session of HPN, and this is a cool type of neurofeedback because you might possibly notice positive results after the first session. Yes. Yes. So it's like we do one session and you're like, some people have come back and they're like, oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow, this is incredible. So that's a possibility. And I like not that doesn't happen with everyone. Everyone, some people is like, okay, we need to do a bit more of the trial and error.

Speaker 1 9:04

Yeah.

Speaker 9:04

And then it's like, okay, let's say there is someone who comes in, they didn't notice anything after our first session. That means the next time we're gonna add on sites. So that means we're moving the electrodes to more spots. Yeah. So those two spots, let's say we're gonna do five, five sites. We're gonna go one, two, three, uh, four, five. Yeah. Right. Um, and again, there's like a certain progression that we can do that works from like the front of the head to the back and then across the sides, down the middle, back to the front again. Right.

Tina Wilston 9:35

Because we want to hit all the different lobes of the brain, right?

Speaker 9:38

Yeah, yeah. And then yeah, it kind of goes from front to back and then back to front. Um but we can also adjust to like from my experience too, with specific symptoms or um different um like levels of fatigue and stuff, or just like, for example, I find people with depression work really well with level three. Yeah. Um, that's been an experience of mine. Just it's it's very calming, um, very regulating. And that's sometimes they'll be like, hey, you know, we can try this. And it's a similar option, like, we can try this. Maybe it doesn't work, maybe it does.

Tina Wilston 10:16

I found the longer that I worked with this machine, because I think I've been interacting with this machine for maybe eight years now, is that there's almost an intuition that starts developing as uh as a practitioner of you've tried different things with different people, it's worked really well. You have a client in front of you describing a very similar situation, and you go, you know what, let's try this. Because I even remember I had a client with insomnia, and I just happened to notice when her um because when when this is set up to our computer, we can actually look in real time again and see what brainwave activity somebody's having. I saw two very interesting things. One was when she closed her eyes, all of a sudden the activity was very different with her eyes closed. So I said, let's train actually with this, uh, with your eyes closed instead of your eyes open. Um, and there was another one where whenever uh he was hooked up, it it looked like interference, like his brain would go very, very basically um uh out of sorts. It would really, all the brainwaves would start overproducing. Um, and then I had to step out of the room for a moment and go grab something. And so I left the room and I came back in. When I first opened the door, I saw that his brainwave activity was normal. And then he realized I was there and it went crazy again. And I realized there was a lot of social anxiety there and how much calmer he was when I wasn't in the room versus when I was in the room. Yeah. So again, it was like, okay, this I'm seeing in real time this reaction to me. And it's better to actually train it and do neuro this particular neurofeedback while he was dysregulated, because that's actually what we want to that's the pattern we want to interrupt. Interrupt. Exactly.

Speaker 11:56

Yeah.

Tina Wilston 11:57

I think of this too as more of a treatment instead of a training.

Speaker 12:01

Yeah. Yeah. Cause we're applying something. Yeah.

Tina Wilston 12:05

Whereas the other electrodes are just picking up the brainwave activity and showing it to us on our screen. This is both picking up brainwave activity and then also introducing new electrical current into the brain. Again, you can't feel a thing. Yes, you don't feel it at all. There's no sensation.

Speaker 12:23

Yeah. Um, the frequencies it's it's sending are the frequencies that your brain is producing already. So it's like the alpha, the beta. Right.

Tina Wilston 12:32

It's just mirroring back slightly different versions of what it's already doing to interrupt the pattern and improve neuroplasticity.

Speaker 12:40

And with that said, too, it sends the signals based off of the dominant frequency that's being picked up where the electrodes are placed. Right.

Tina Wilston 12:48

Which often the dominant frequency is the problematic one. Yeah. Okay. And so when it comes to why would we recommend this one to people?

Speaker 13:02

That's a good question. Um I find for some people, and with a my experience with HPN has been that people have described it as like clearing out the cobwebs. Again. So I find like it it offers that opportunity to reset and prime the brain, give it more capacity and space to be able to do some of the learning.

Tina Wilston 13:29

Okay.

Speaker 13:30

Right. So it interrupts that stuck pattern. And then when we do the learning on top of it, the two pair together can work really well. So the brain, it's almost like we're kind of giving the brain a leg up to do the learning portion.

When HPN Beats Traditional Training

Tina Wilston 13:46

One of the ways that I've thought about this one as well is that I love HPN for things where your brain was healthy, it was good, it was not having any symptoms of anything, and then something happened. A trauma happened, a head injury happened, um, or like a stressful period, like a lengthy stressful period. So anybody after COVID could have benefited from HPN. So something happened to dysregulate them. And this kind of puts us back to factory settings.

Speaker 1 14:15

Yeah.

Tina Wilston 14:16

Whereas I think of traditional neurofeedback, its strength is being able to go, your brain has never done this thing before that we want it to do. So let's go with ADHD. Your brain has always been uh maybe overproducing um a certain brainwave. We will get into the details of that later, but with with um uh with ADHD, you're born with that, right? Your b your brain is born that way. And we can change that from a way that it's we can change it to something that it's never done before. Whereas uh high performance neurofeedback isn't one that's gonna teach your brain to do something it doesn't know how to do.

Speaker 14:51

Yeah. Right. Yeah, I agree. And I do, I do find that like with HPN, it's very helpful with, you know, anxiety, depression, sleep. I'd say those are some of like the big ones. HPN is not necessarily something that I would do with like it is very helpful with ADHD and can help facilitate that the learning process. But as like a standalone, like where I would recommend HPN alone would be like situations with like anxiety, depression, trauma. Yeah, yeah. And concussion, right? Yeah. It can feel very helpful. It can I think with concussion, you know, there's a little bit more um what's the word I'm looking for? Like you need to be a little bit more careful or like be pay, like the ability to overstim is very difficult. Because over stim is a lot easier with concussion because the brain isn't a like a more fraudulent.

Tina Wilston 15:37

It could exacerbate more of those post-concussive symptoms.

Speaker 15:41

But on the flip side of that, the positive effects that it can have are so substantial that it's most people are like, yeah, let's do it.

Tina Wilston 15:49

Yeah. I have found the most noticeable improvements being anybody who's ever had a concussion. What's so interesting about this too is a lot of people, and myself included, actually, somebody asked me if if I'd ever had a concussion. I said no. But then I had this memory of this time that I for sure stood, I stood up when I was getting in one of those open Jeep vehicles that had a bar, and I stood up and hit the very top of my head. Now, do I remember having any concussion symptoms like nausea or fatigue or anything that afterwards? No, but I can't say that that didn't impact my brain anyway. Right. And so I think that sometimes I I you wouldn't know what impact that had, but HPN could show you a little bit. Yeah. Because that could resolve those symptoms that came from a a significant hit to the head that also might not have reached concussion level.

Speaker 16:40

Yeah. Yeah. And that's where like sometimes I do find like for, you know, depending on the severity of like the post-concussive symptoms, um, sometimes we'll say, okay, let's do a couple of single, like uh stabilizing single channel, um, which is another type of neurofeedback that we'll kind of explore in another uh episode. But um that that can be stabilizing, do a few of those and then introduce the HPN.

Tina Wilston 17:06

Okay.

Speaker 17:06

Just to give the brain a little bit more stability before adding that piece in can be helpful. And that's all dependent, like this, so much of it is very individualized based on like what's like what the symptoms the individual is experiencing and you know how recent was the head injury and uh level of functioning, all those things.

Tina Wilston 17:26

Yeah, yeah. But it does, it adds a layer of complexity when creating the treatment plans for people, and that's what that's one of the reasons why we're doing this is helping people understand what all these things are, because we, from working with people over the years, can sort of get a sense of, you know, they're a very good candidate for maybe trying a bit of uh high performance neurofeedback, see how much progress we can make with that, and then whatever doesn't resolve with that, then we can target very specifically with our other forms.

Speaker 17:57

Yeah, I find that too. Like some people they maybe can't, um traditional neurofeedback really r relies on that consistency and repetition. Um, or maybe they're in a place where they don't have the ability to engage in act like watching something. And that's where I'm like, okay, let's start with some HPN. Like I'll go the full like the opposite way of let's do some HPN, see, you know, does it regulate? Do you notice any positive changes with it? And then maybe we can introduce the single channel or Loretta, whatever traditional neurofeedback we want to do at a later date. Yeah.

Weekly Timing Boosters And Therapy

Tina Wilston 18:33

And what I like about this actually to that you bring it up is that this is done weekly. It's never done twice a week. Um, it can even be done for us very much. What we usually notice is when we've done a treatment at the very beginning, most people will notice between 24 and 48 hours, there'll be a noticeable difference, which will slowly wear off. And then we do another treatment, and ideally, we're looking for the results to start lasting longer and longer. And then if we have people coming in saying, I still feel good, that's when we might say, you know what, let's try every two weeks or let's try 10 days. Let's see how long it's lasting for. Because ultimately, this isn't meant to be done forever. Um lots of people will say, I'm feeling a lot better. Um, I've seen incredible results with panic attacks. Um, so we'll go six where this person was having panic attacks maybe a couple times a week. It's been six weeks since their last panic attack. Um, and then then I have a lot of people that just kind of come in as needed, or they might come in for a little tweak once, twice a year. They're like, oh, something happened and I'm feeling a little off. So they come, get a little boost.

Speaker 19:40

Yeah. Right. Honestly, that's kind of like I I'll I'll use HPN sometimes, but in that context of like, I'll kind of use it when I'm feeling the stress more. When I'm like, oh, you know, I could use a little HPN booster. Yeah. Um, and it does make a difference. And then sometimes it's usually like sleep related too, of like, you know, I know that I'm gonna sleep well when I do the HPN. And it can get sleep back on track. Yeah, so I'm like, I'm gonna do an HPN because I feel like I haven't slept well, I'm kind of tired, and that often does the trick.

Speaker 1 20:08

Yeah.

Speaker 20:08

Um, and the other thing too is this can be very helpful combined with therapy. And even for some therapy, like, I mean, in the mind spot context, there's possibilities of incorporating, you know, if your clinician does that, yeah, um, into sessions, right? Uh, I have some clients will all do like HPN and then we'll do therapy right after. Yeah. Because often some people notice the effects pretty quickly and will be like, it gives me more space to then we can like explore more trauma or you know, yeah, go into those thoughts a little bit more. Um, there's more capacity to organize their thoughts. Yeah.

Tina Wilston 20:43

Yeah. And and again, from that nervous system, like this helps regulate and calm the nervous system. And so, yeah, we can we we function a lot better with a calm nervous system than a not calm nervous system. I I also incorporate HBN with a lot of my clients as well. And I love because while we're doing this, I can do a check-in. How's your week? Just give me the top level sort of synopsis of how things have been going. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I almost feel like a hairdresser when I, you know. Um, and and then we can get into the deeper work once once this is done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

QEEG Brain Map And Safety

Tina Wilston 21:17

And so the other thing about this to know is because what is the role of doing a QEEG brain map and doing HPN only? Is there a version that people can get HPN without doing the QEEG brain map?

Speaker 21:43

Yeah, so it is possible, like HPN because there is a more general progression that we can go off of, or like a standardized protocol that we can do off. There is more space to do it without a QEG. I personally I always say, I'm like, you know what, best practice is to always do a Q because it gives us a lot of insight as to how your brain is functioning. And then, you know, let's say there is um a lot of like too much or too little of different brain waves in like the frontal lobes. Specifically, okay, maybe I would place that might mean that I would place the electrodes more focused towards like the frontal lobe. Right.

Speaker 1 22:18

So you change your treatment plan.

Speaker 22:19

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, but sometimes it just will follow the same typical progression. Yeah. Um, but you don't need to. You don't have to do the QE, like you could just do the HPN. Right.

Tina Wilston 22:29

That's just where it's working with your brain already. And we're not trying to make it do something it doesn't know how to do. We don't necessarily need to be looking at that.

Speaker 22:38

Yeah. And that's where you know, like if you're working with your client, you know what their symptom like presentation is. Like you've got that, like you've done the intake and all the things, which is why like it doesn't need to have the QEG done. But I think just because of like a lot of the work I do where I like come combine it with traditional neurofeedback or different things, I often do the QEG with it, but it doesn't mean that it has to be done. The Q can give you good insight, but it's not necessary.

Tina Wilston 23:03

So if there's anybody that is looking more from a they they fit the good a good profile for working with HBN. So that would be if they have anxiety, if they have a history of concussion, um, if they have uh mood uh depression as well or symptoms of depression and budget is a concern, then we might be able to give them this as an option, right? Yeah. Because this would be just one session a week, not necessarily need the QEG. I think we do reserve for if there is a history of concussion, then we insist on a QEG because we do not want to be, we want to be able to see what's going on before. But if there's zero history of concussion, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 23:42

If there's no history of like if we were to do the intake, like there's no history of like concussion, um, seizures of any kind. Right. Um, hallucination, psychosis, like those types of things. Um, is there anything else that I would headaches, migraines too, depending on like the nature of them?

Tina Wilston 24:01

Um because we don't want to exacerbate those. We don't want to make those worse.

Speaker 24:04

Yeah.

Tina Wilston 24:04

The last thing you want is somebody coming in for migraines and we give them migraines. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 24:08

And that's where like the intake is so important, right? Because they can usually give you the context of like, okay, how frequently are they, what's the intensity? Um, are they in association with something like how are they triggered? Like, what's the where or why are they coming up? Right. Um, that can allow us because if it's, you know, a headache here and there, but they're not like tied to anything, yeah. Okay, we probably don't need to, like, we could just do the HP and we don't need to do the QEG. But if it's yeah.

Tina Wilston 24:35

Well, also the one when I think of high performance neurofeedback too, I would say this is our neurofeedback that we're gonna introduce if someone wants peak performance, right? Because this isn't something that only if you have symptoms of something, this can help you. This can actually help you. You don't need to have insomnia to find it helps you sleep more deeply and have

Peak Performance And Autism Support

Tina Wilston 24:55

more restorative sleep, or you don't have to have clinical anxiety for it to help just regulate your nervous system even and build even more resilience than you already have, right?

Speaker 25:06

Yeah, yeah. It can be helpful just to like boost, boost your everyday focus.

Tina Wilston 25:13

Yeah. A a lot of people what I find is they'll they'll say they feel more like themselves. Yeah.

Speaker 25:19

I actually had someone who said they were better at the sport that they played.

Tina Wilston 25:24

Right.

Speaker 25:25

Yes.

Tina Wilston 25:26

Yeah. Because it just helps the brain function at a higher level. The the communication in the brain improves. Yeah. So yeah, there's more clarity, right? We I do have to say, like, we all really love this machine. I I remember my friend, she was like, You're the best salesperson in the world when it comes to HPN because um, because I've used it for so long, I've used it with so many different people. And it's actually really hard in this line of work because a lot of people come to stuff like this very skeptical, and you're like, I understand, I understand the skepticism. And honestly, if somebody was telling me what I know about this machine, I'd be like, uh, sounds too good to be true. Yeah. Or why don't more people know about this? Or why don't doctors recommend it? I'm like, I do, I hundred percent understand that. But being in it as long as we have and seeing the results that we have with this. It's incredible. The idea of not being able to have it for clients or be able to use it for all of us is like, yeah, I've seen it really helpful with autism as well. Okay, right. Because um, do you want to explain a little bit just in that sense of uh the sensory? Because it's the sensory piece, right?

Speaker 26:34

Yeah, yeah. So actually, one of my experiences was um a child like who's like non-verbal who started to, you know, start to speak more in sentences. Wow. And like using some words. And I just remember like the the parents' reaction, they were just like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And then same um one similar, um, but improving like their behavioral regulation, yeah. Um, and their reaction to sensory input. Yeah. So with that, it had a lot to do with I usually in those cases I'll start at like the central strip. Yeah. Um, which for people listening, it's like right along, like in alignment with the ears, right up to the top, like over like the middle part of your your head. Yeah. Um, because that part of the brain has a lot to do with um sensory and motor input and output. Yeah. So with autism specifically, um, there are patterns that we can see in the brain that associate with autism in that part of the brain. So I'll often like I'll put the electrodes in that spot and we're kind of like interrupting that pattern, right? Yeah. So I've seen improvement with behavior um yeah, behaviors and also how they're responding to sensory information.

Speaker 1 27:48

Yeah.

Speaker 27:49

Um more capacity, and then with like the verbal aspects.

Tina Wilston 27:54

Well, that's the thing, right? Is is from what we understand, very often the behaviors are potentially stemming from an over stimulation of the sensory um experience. So that there it's often gonna get triggered by sights, sounds, smells, all that type of stuff. So if the sensory part of the brain is calmer, it takes more to actually cause emotional overwhelm, which then often is the thing that leads to the behavioral side to it.

Speaker 28:19

Yeah. Yeah. So it offers, yeah, more capacity for them to manage, manage those experiences, which is pretty incredible to see. And even I think like technicians can speak to it too in terms of like what they see in sessions of like, wow, you know, like where we start in session um versus like where we are now in terms of like their behaviors or their reactions in session. Right. They're like, oh my gosh, it's it's incredible.

Tina Wilston 28:43

Ability to sit still, ability to communicate um with the technician, I imagine, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, we're a big, big fan of this machine.

unknown 28:54

Yeah.

Tina Wilston 28:55

But if people want to know more, that's another way that uh if anybody is listening to this and they want to just find out more about their specific situation in HBN, we do those 20-minute free consults where they can speak to you or one of the technicians and find out more about specifically what this is, how this can help them. Yeah.

Free Consults And Closing

Tina Wilston 29:15

And whether because there's very few things, like you said, that were that are that that we want to be more careful on. Well, interestingly, as far as I understand, this machine was actually developed to help with seizures. But because seizures is a medical issue and we cannot treat medical issues, um, it's not um it wouldn't be considered a treatment for seizures, but we just want to be really, really careful because we never want to charge our new seizure.

Speaker 29:40

Yeah, exactly.

Tina Wilston 29:42

All right. Well that's all I can think of to tell you about HBN right now, but uh that is. That's it for today's episode of The MindSpa Podcast. If this conversation resonated, I'd love it if you would follow and share. It's a small thing that makes a big difference. The links to our podcast platforms, Instagram and YouTube, are in the show notes, and your support helps us reach more people and attract the voices we want to hear.